Curse

The-Bigz · Jan 22, 2010, 10:22 AM // 10:22

Hey Community. I have been playing since 2006 and started in PvE, which I soon found tiresome because I'm not into NPC battles and repetitive online grinding, yet I did complete all expansions with help from runners and friends, and then moved onto PvP. PvP was good and the titles made the game seem worth playing, along with more than enough people to fillup a friends list to the point where you wish you had more room to add people to depend on when you found that your teams weren't doing good.

As I continued to play the game seemed to get a little bit livelier, and more cheaters/cheap tactics and strategies were madeup, effectively hurting the player community and the rest of the game by causing such a big commotion that more extreme nerfs than normal got implemented and gameplay in alot of areas was changed permanently. While it did begin to hurt the playerbase and the amount of fun some people were having, I didn't mind much because I didn't think cheating to accomplish something was worth doing. I'd rather have the experience or take the time to do it myself and have fun with it. I didn't mind most of the exploiters or cheapscapes because you could spot them a mile away like title hunting by syncing in RA, or farming HA/HB points by exploits and whatnot, and I even AB'd my full Kurz/Lux titles because I enjoyed PvPing, rather than the title it gave (repetitive running back and forth on the same map fighting NPC's with programmed responses that specific builds were made to counter that were widely available didn't seem very rewarding/fun either).

Of course I dont deny other people the joy of that or make fun of someone that did it, even tho it was a cheat or exploit, because everyone has fun their own way. That brings me to the point I made this thread for. I've played this game for almost 4 years now and have lived with all the changes, have found a way to make good builds even with the nerfs available, and can play most classes with ease and have full everything unlocked for PvP chars. Whats my problem? Where are the PvPers? In RA you run into syncers nonstop, and dont get me wrong, cheating syncers were commonplace back in the day, but you could deal with it and try again. Now its the ONLY way to win. I dont sync, and I seem to run into all the teams that do, so I guess I can't plan to have much fun or see any rewards in RA. Well at least TA was left for some fun when it wasn't a ghost town, and I dont know how many people feel about this, but what is CA? I have friends, a job, and I enjoy eating. I can't take 2 hours out of my day, every day, building a build to combat an ever changing Metagame, that changes everyday. Thats just time consuming and like another job. HB was taken out along with CA, which was alrite with me because the mechanics of HB from the start along with the strange reactions of your Hero NPC's was off to begin with in my opinion, so I didn't feel much loss there. HA is still intact, although finding a decent group of people to play without joining an HA only guild is rather hard. I only HA when extremely bored so its alrite to play with noobs and joke around a bit on it. And then we have Alliance Battles. I believe this is the funnest part of guild wars. This emphasizes an individuals ability to play along with his ability to play with team mates and communicate. Alliance Battles is dead. There is nothing more to discuss about this. In the last couple months the map has very rarely changed from Kurzick favor, effectively eliminating new players from enjoy or learning to play it on the Lux side, which also cuts down the number of incomming new Luxon players. This adds to the amount of Kurzicks playing and the balance just gets worse and worse. For the last couple weeks I have had to wait for the Luxons to create three teams of 4 people, and if we are on Grenz you have to wait for the Kurzicks to create teams. What is going on here? Why do I have to wait hours on end to play an actually challenging 12 vs 12 match with PvP adept allies and teammates? When I do find decent people that play, of course I make friends and add them. The only problem is when they never log on again or never want to AB again.

I am seriously saddened that my favorite past time of the last 4 years has been reduced to rubble in a matter of months. I just want to know what happened. I still enjoy the game, and move around the problems, but I guess other people don't or something insane occured. Where are all the people I used to play with, and where are all the people that are usually joining the game that I teach and give tips to so they can enjoy the game themselves without being insulted or made fun of every 5 seconds for not knowing how to play? The playerbase is becoming extremely small, and I was just wondering what occured to cause such a problem.

Sincerely,
Someone who used to enjoy this game.

Edit: I would also like to note, after reading what some of the community has to say here - Most of the skill updates and etc are being made for PvE and GvG. This leaves little room for the veteran player that doesn't feel like stressing over the game or a new player trying out aspects of the game and learning about it. Not many new players turn into hardcore PvE'rs or GvGe'rs nor do many of them catch the learning slope that fast, the changes on their skills could make a large difference to how they play and if they enjoy the game and stay or not, not to mention that not many veteran players want to waste 3 hours a day fighting mobs after getting a build off another website to easily dominate the area, or enjoy trying GvG 100 times over until they find a group that isn't using a wiki build when they are just beginning to play and get easily dominated by a team that did rip a build off another site. All in all - the skill updates are turning the game into a chess game. Either you play this and get beat by that, or you play that and get beat by this. Nothing whatsoever about playing ability. Just rock, paper, scissors.

isildorbiafra · Jan 22, 2010, 10:33 AM // 10:33

Security breach; hackers; botting; unrewarding cookie cutter builds and the empty promise of regular updates drove them all away.

Sadly enough; I agree with you. Its time to uninstall.

Killed u man · Jan 22, 2010, 10:37 AM // 10:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by The-Bigz

The playerbase is becoming extremely small, and I was just wondering what occured to cause such a problem

Didn't read the intire text, just skimmed through it, and in reply to your final, maybe retorical, question:

Nothing.

And that's always the problem with Anet. They NEVER react, and when they do, it's ATLEAST several months too late. Shadow Form, Ursan, and even 55, 600/Smite builds should have been nerfed the month they came out. This was the ultimate bane of pugging, people being able to solo the game. Hechies were here since the start of the game, yet people rarely used them.

Same thing for PvP. Skills getting nerfed when they're about to leave the meta is what made alot of people leave. Prime example now is: Vpie spike. A vPie spike guild nearly won the mAT, running only 1 build. People couldn't even build wars it, as it is too powerfull. So 3 months after the first appearance, Anet finally decided to nerf it, when there's MAYBE 2-3 guilds left running it...

trialist · Jan 22, 2010, 10:51 AM // 10:51

Other games said hi to them? If GW is the only game you have been playing for the last 4 years and you have not touched any other game released for the last 4 years, that's kinda sad you know.

Be brave, try another game and you will soon realize that GW isn't worth crying over.

The-Bigz · Jan 22, 2010, 11:04 AM // 11:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by trialist

Other games said hi to them? If GW is the only game you have been playing for the last 4 years and you have not touched any other game released for the last 4 years, that's kinda sad you know.

Be brave, try another game and you will soon realize that GW isn't worth crying over.

I play plenty of other games, including MMO and Console. I never said I didn't. I asked what happened to THIS game. No need to be rude or act like your elite.

Zebideedee · Jan 22, 2010, 11:05 AM // 11:05

Quote:

They NEVER react, and when they do, it's ATLEAST several months too late. Shadow Form, Ursan, and even 55, 600/Smite builds should have been nerfed the month they came out.

Yeah, it's totally pathetic now, you go to the more difficult areas and it's like a Sin night out, it would be funny if it wasn't so pathetic! Wonder how many people have quit because of the lack of parties available thanks to solo players and runners.

As for PvP, I don't play it, I only play PvP in first person shooters where skill is actually relevant, pew pew!

gone · Jan 22, 2010, 11:11 AM // 11:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by The-Bigz

-snip-

I was thinking the same thing.

trialist · Jan 22, 2010, 11:14 AM // 11:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by The-Bigz

I play plenty of other games, including MMO and Console. I never said I didn't. I asked what happened to THIS game. No need to be rude or act like your elite.

Wow, upset much? Heh cool down bud. Can't see how my reply came across as elite in any way. All i did was ask you to try another game if you have not and not to cry over the state of this game. But still if you must know, off the top of my head, these are the reasons this game is dead:

1. Age
2. Failed promises
3. updates that get delayed forever and ever
4. game imbalance
5. poor implementation of good ideas
6. removal of game modes to cater for other failed game modes
7. security scares
8. <insert other anet failures>

can't really be bothered to really list out all the reasons, but that is a shortlist. Have fun and smile dude, smile. You scary.

The-Bigz · Jan 22, 2010, 11:29 AM // 11:29

Well in this short time from the post to now I have realized what has happened to this game.

The people playing it.
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Zebideedee-
Yeah, it's totally pathetic now, you go to the more difficult areas and it's like a Sin night out, it would be funny if it wasn't so pathetic! Wonder how many people have quit because of the lack of parties available thanks to solo players and runners.

As for PvP, I don't play it, I only play PvP in first person shooters where skill is actually relevant, pew pew!

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This is probably the dumbest thing I have ever seen in my life. Playing PvP in a first person shooter? FPS shooters have nothing to do with skill whatsoever. They deal with reflexes. I can beat most of my friends in an FPS my first time playing. I point and click, and get used to recoil to make sure my shots hit before they get me. Its luck of comming up behind someone besides hearing noise, and reflexes of shooting them before they shoot you.
And if the top part was saying that PvE in this game takes more skill than PvP, you need to re-think your strategy on life. The Computers automated and nothing can go wrong under the right circumstances, and if something is wrong you just leave and come back. Its not like the computer is gonna do something random on you.

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trialist -
Other games said hi to them? If GW is the only game you have been playing for the last 4 years and you have not touched any other game released for the last 4 years, that's kinda sad you know.

Be brave, try another game and you will soon realize that GW isn't worth crying over.
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I said I liked the game and pointed out what I found wrong with it and that it made me sad that I couldn't enjoy it like I used to. I guess that means I suck and dont do anything but QQ over Guild Wars? You sir, are one of the reasons that newer players dont stay. Criticism/assumptions/rudeness. It creates a bad environment.
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Killed u man -
Didn't read the intire text, just skimmed through it, and in reply to your final, maybe retorical, question:

Nothing.

And that's always the problem with Anet. They NEVER react, and when they do, it's ATLEAST several months too late. Shadow Form, Ursan, and even 55, 600/Smite builds should have been nerfed the month they came out. This was the ultimate bane of pugging, people being able to solo the game. Hechies were here since the start of the game, yet people rarely used them.

Same thing for PvP. Skills getting nerfed when they're about to leave the meta is what made alot of people leave. Prime example now is: Vpie spike. A vPie spike guild nearly won the mAT, running only 1 build. People couldn't even build wars it, as it is too powerfull. So 3 months after the first appearance, Anet finally decided to nerf it, when there's MAYBE 2-3 guilds left running it...
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If you didn't read what I spent time typing and would rather just getoff your vendetta VS A-Net then do it somewhere else rather than decent feedback. Human beings have always wanted to do things on their own to prove they are better, therefore people will always find ways to solo the game, whether it be with luck, or with a calculated strategy. Nerfing the game will do nothing for A-net in that regard except make people quit because they can't be cool online. The second party about PVP - Ever think that people want to develop a way to beat something? If A-Net plays babysitter and nerfs every skill that appears in the game that SEEMS to own, then I guess everyone would be running an auto attack build. After reading your thread about bots on some type of minigame that must be in PvE, which I apologize for not playing and understanding, I just have to ask. You are so deadly intent on proving you are the best in the game, repeatedly say that bots are beating the game, and that you can't win because of the bots, yet you have access to the bots. Why dont you just pick up a bot and have at it? Dont take things so seriously. If you can't beat them, join them. I wouldn't bot, but then again I dont take something so seriously as to go into a rage fit over it. Obviously ignorant people are obviously ignorant.
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isildorbiafra -
Security breach; hackers; botting; unrewarding cookie cutter builds and the empty promise of regular updates drove them all away.

Sadly enough; I agree with you. Its time to uninstall.
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I agree with you a bit. The top area of your post seems to be spot on with what I have concluded. However the bottom half is wrong. The game needs a higher population and more interest to continue running, leaving it would just make its downfall faster.
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Sorry for not using the quote stuff, I'm not big on forums.

C4RB1N3 · Jan 22, 2010, 11:36 AM // 11:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by The-Bigz

The playerbase is becoming extremely small, and I was just wondering what occured to cause such a problem.

You really want to know? I'll tell you,

1:ArenNet simply doesn't care about its player base and really has no reason too, once they have your money your no longer use to them,

2:Nothing new ever comes to Guild Wars and updates are spaced month apart,

3:well..think about it..its been 4 years of same game with no new content and with about a weeks worth of content on a new character, players get bored, and i know what you may say"well go pvp" that gets boring too, after 4 years of it.

But hey don't let all that get you down, we still have Guild Wars 2 to look froward too!

Shuuda · Jan 22, 2010, 11:37 AM // 11:37

TL;DR: Same old, same old. "Veteran" complaints.

Fate Crusher · Jan 22, 2010, 11:58 AM // 11:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zebideedee

As for PvP, I don't play it, I only play PvP in first person shooters where skill is actually relevant, pew pew!

Skill has and always been part of GW PvP. Aside from bspike and gimmick builds, any ballanced team in HA/GvG with good skill and tactical awareness will be able to win. Agreed that RA can be a melting pot of Build Wars, but hey. It's Random. and it's 4v4.

Alliance Battles have been hit hard because of FFF. Both luxon and Kurzicks have areas where they can speedclear in 11-15 mins and receive 17-18k faction. Those who are left in AB don't seem to understand the concept/listen to the 12-man party tactics and generally makes AB unbearable, even as a kurz in our own territory we can lose because 1 team isn't capping in the right direction. I wouldn't be surprised if some players don't even have the U map up.

But yes, this game is dead in some parts. :3

Agar · Jan 22, 2010, 12:15 PM // 12:15

It all comes down to "what do you want from Guild Wars?"
For example all i want is to add every achievement in the HoM including the pvp ones sooooo i realy dont see gw as a dead game or any of the facts u stated as a serious problem. I still have fun and see tons of players ingame. The problem with most of the players is that since GW is a f2p they take big breaks any time they feel like it. Ive found a stable guild for a year and a half now so i always got friends to play with.
They only aspect of the game i see as kinda dead is the pvp one. RA has become something like a minigame based on luck and codex arena is dominated by harcore pvpers only. Hall of Heroes has become impossible for new players to join and Guild Battles is kinda out of the question too.
You should see the game more as a co-op RPG than a MMO and lets hope for drastic changes soon.

Introverted Dimensions · Jan 22, 2010, 12:37 PM // 12:37

I've been playing this game since 06 and I still enjoy every minute of it.

Revelations · Jan 22, 2010, 12:41 PM // 12:41

If it takes you two hours to put a codex build together then you're doin' it wrong.

Rocky Raccoon · Jan 22, 2010, 01:01 PM // 13:01

If you are unhappy move on there are many more games to try. I still enjoy GW but have tried other games from time to time but always play GW at least a few times each week.

Oleg · Jan 22, 2010, 01:30 PM // 13:30

I've never been able to understand why people who don't like GW are still active in the forums. The-Bigz original post seemed like a genuine question. The vast majority of the responses seem to boil down to "Anet sucks and so does GW". If you don't like it, leave. Once you've left, leave the forums too.

My guild is active. The player base from my perspective is strong and there is a lot to do. If you don't find the same then it may be time to change guilds. The one thing you have complete control over is how you approach the game. If it isn't working for you, change what you do.

I grew bored of GW about a year ago and shelved it for a few months. For me that worked and I returned happier than ever. If it has grown stale for you, either approach the game a different way or put it aside for a while. When all is said and done the game is there for your entertainment. If you don't enjoy it, walk away.

For me who I play the GW with is far more important than the actual game. Maybe you just need to hang out with a different bunch.

For all of those people who whinge and moan about GW, state how you would like the game to be rather than what you don't like about it. You want updates? What exactly? What is it you're looking for? If you don't have at least one possible solution to a problem then it isn't really a problem, it's just a whine.

Hyperventilate · Jan 22, 2010, 01:38 PM // 13:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revelations

If it takes you two hours to put a codex build together then you're doin' it wrong.

Or more than ten minutes to put a build together period.

Gill Halendt · Jan 22, 2010, 01:44 PM // 13:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oleg

For me who I play the GW with is far more important than the actual game. Maybe you just need to hang out with a different bunch.

Same here.

I admitedly find GW a tad boring by itself right now (playing since 2005).

Yet I consider myself quite an addict, since I play with friends (some of them are even IRL friends now) I couldn't do without anymore.

Windf0rce · Jan 22, 2010, 02:02 PM // 14:02

The PvE part of the game is pretty lively - and as mentioned above, even better with a guild full of friends.

The problem is PvP: the accessibility is just too bad and it kills most non-random formats.

Look at CA, HA and GvG: huge setup times, must have good networking/friends/initiative (as good teams won't take new players and I don't blame them for that), awful rewards for the time invested. And even if you manage to setup a team, you might just be steamrolled over and over with very little chance to learn to get any better. Wasting full nights and leaving without nearly ANY rewards is not the idea of fun for most people, naturally (i.e. low end GvG = no reward, CA at 4 wins only = no reward, etc).

With less players around, higher is the chance of facing a good team, and thus, losing bad, not really learning anything because things go just so wrong there is no way to analyze where to start from to improve.

People just disband and never look back - they go farm some PvE area while chatting, relaxing and having fun on vent, getting shiny items and rewards. Doesn't that sound much better than raging over and over on vent and not gaining anything? ANet would need to revise accessibility and rewards to starting/lowend/casual PvP Guilds IMHO.